I can NOT believe it. I have heard about this but really didn't believe it.
I finally spoke up about Carlos constantly saying I and other scientists have never worked w/ wild owls - to rooms full of schoolchildren, no less.
So I said something about it last night when there were less than 100 people logged in.
And, sure enough, I HAVE BEEN BANNED FROM THE CHAT ROOM!
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How else does one earn respect but to be one of the most experienced scientist in the world when it comes to barn owls? The know nothings love to scream about how there is no global warming or that stem cells shouldn't be used. The anti science types when given a bit of power like to lord it over the "egg heads." The unquestioning worship of the cult of personality always results in the persecution of the best and brightest. What is odd is that Carlos and Donna are actually loving people who really care about these owls in their own way but they are surrounded by sycophants who attack anyone who questions anything. I have been saying for at least a week that there are many kinds of rabbits, ranging in weight from 2.5 pounds to 15 pounds and yet Carlos keeps lecturing kids that when the owls are given a rabbit it is the same as 55 mice. The average mouse around here is something like .06 while the rabbits are maybe 1.5 pounds which would make the rabbits 25 mice but no one points the facts out to him. At least he put up the platform. The owls have no way to get back up into the nest, but there is a tree they can climb and hopefully the parents will feed them. This incessant Pollyannaish attitude that everything will be all right and nature is supreme is so naive but if people want to bury their heads in the sand, so be it. I just don't speak up any more because I am called a worry wart (a phrase Carlos coined and is parroted heavily) So if Stacey is out. I am out too. I always side with the smart people. Birds of a feather...
I'm afraid it's true; Stacey has been banned from Carlos's site on ustream.
The public announcement went something like this:
1:58 [MOD]: "So here's the deal.. Stacey HAS been banned. Sorry if you don't like it, but it will not be undone and IS permanent. End of story!
[02:45] Anyone who causes a rukus over this.. will be banned as well. Carlos and Donna do not deserve the drama that has been going on in here: And it ends now!
This is about the owls.. lets keep it that way Thanks!"
Michelle Irish
I feel sick to my stomach....unbelievable.
Oops. The time at the beginning of the sentence ...anyone who causes a ruckus....
should be changed to 1:59. I accidentally typed 2:45
Michelle Irish
Totally bizarre.
Why would anyone NOT want to find out more things - and from the real experts, no less?
There is a frightening permeation of US-American society of "anti-science" dogma which sickens me.
Luckily, there are many many people who do not feel this way; it is just that those who do are often noisier.
I hope fervently that the Royal family will end up doing what is right... for the owls.
Frightening. Words fail here. Human censorship and control at it's ugliest. Don't lose faith, Stacey. The positive in this is that for SOME the reality of the Carlos worship may finally come in to clear and undeniable focus.
Wow, unbelievable. Do they not want to know the truth???
My comments are gone ... but they were the first and there is nothing saying they are gone :(
Did they not post or were they deleted ... I would think it would say something if they were deleted.
Oh well ... anyways, I honestly wouldn't give it any worry. I don't understand the need to suppress anyone's views. I've asked numerous questions that have always gone unanswered.
Maybe you, Stacey can answer them one day. I've never been able to see what you have to say and would love to learn more.
PS - I've always used the site you are going to now (I have "checked" on the other site to only see the stats for the night.)
I am so sorry for the multiple posts. I obviously don't have this techystuff down pat : )
Anywhoooo, Stacey, I'm EB82 "over there" and I am appauled that the "attack dogs" banned you! But not surprised. You don't "go" with their candycoated atmosphere. Sigh. Overflowers will miss you. I wonder if Carlos knows?
Stacey, I'm very sorry about how you have been treated, but I am not at all surprised. Anyone with any knowledge to share is shunned by the cult members. Thank goodness, we have a couple of knowledgeable rehabbers who hang out in overflow. If it weren't for them, we wouldn't have any accurate source of information. Those who have no real knowledge of the subject matter continually parrot each other and propagate the misinformation. While I do agree that Carlos and Donna care about the owls, I am also quite turned off by the merchandising, probably the most tasteless of which is the cover depicting a mouse swimming in a bowl of soup. This thing has taken on a life of its own, and in the grand scheme of the world, it a pimple on the butt of an elephant. If you want to test that little theory, ask someone at work if they know who Dotrot is. Dot who?
Well, there is a time and place for everything .. Stacey has plenty of outlet for her views .. stating them there was not helpful. Carlos said many times he was giving us a window into his owlbox .. which is like almost every owlbox in the world .. he said he was no expert .. he wanted us to have fun together. Enter experts, harping on every little thing and getting people to worry. It caused the chat to be something it was not meant to be... Stacey should have just told people to google her if they wanted more info, not do a Q & A on Carlos's dime...
This makes me so ANGRY that I can HARDLY TYPE!!! Banning you from the chat box is INSANE!!! I will join you at the Sportsman's Paradise website as will many of those who support your point of view. I have gotten so sick and tired of the vitriol in the M&M main chat that I rarely sign in to the main room anymore... I'm sure they'd say "good riddance" because I speak my mind and don't subscribe to their Disney-esque way of looking at wildlife. I LOVE all of the wild things around us... I just don't happen to worship Carlos and it's VERY annoying. They don't talk about owls much in there anyway... it's all "HOW WONDERFUL Carlos is"... "Buy A Molly mug or t-shirt!"... or "hey, what's everyone eating right now." {{{GAG}}} I've been watching Molly's box and participating in chat since Feb 15th, it saddens me to see what this had devolved into.... all while hundreds of kids look on! What a WONDERFUL lesson they're getting.... NOT! I could say more, but my hands are shaking too much to type... love 'ya Stacey!
This whole situation is disappointing. I was always interested in Stacey's opinions and respected her expertise. I purchased her book for this reason. Recently, I have been turned off with her level of vitriol and sarcasm on her blog. I know that as a talented writer and scientist, she is very capable of getting her point across effectively without being so condescending.
Give ignorant people a little power and this sort of thing is what happens. The moderators are so immature (on the M & M site) that their answer to different points of view is to ban people or remove their posts and threaten to ban. Such behavior will bite them in the butt one day. I stopped reading the chat after only a few visits as I found it to be unrelated to owls & clique-ish. I will continue to look in just to see how the owls are doing but that's it. Stupid, stupid people!
I'm glad to see that you are above this, Stacey. Best of luck to you.
By Royal Decree, Stacey has been banished from the Kingdom! Off with her head! Give me a break. Stacey, I know you must be disappointed, and I am sympathetic, but I mean really, if banning is the worst they can do… On to new opportunities!
In reality, the wall which surrounds the Royal Castle is 12 feet thick and mostly impenetrable. More than likely the monarchy has been planning this banning for a while and they have finally achieved climax to the plot. You were the means they used to display and demonstrate the mod’s vast and limitless (lol) power.
Probably more seeds of fact have been planted than you are aware of. When Molly’s owlbox cam comes to a close and people aren’t receiving their druggy doses of chat, which currently keeps them in unrealsville, their brains will reactivate. Hopefully, awareness will dawn, the withdrawal will be memorable and they’ll realize where they’ve been all this time. Some will remain outwardly and seemingly unreachable but inwardly, and undeniably, no longer able to claim ignorance where the facts are concerned.
You have succeeded in what you so honorably tried to do. Maybe now, if and when people put up their own owl boxes, they will be of better design, they’ll be in trees or in the shade, have proper perches, or wisely they may decide they don’t have the proper habitat so it’s better not to install one. You have saved many future owls from torment, agony and needless death. Note how many have purchased your books and have visited your blog. Quite an accomplishment I’d say!
The educational goals and kind attitude you have were clear and above reproach from the start. Your commitment to your uppermost calling- the stewardship you feel toward owls and other raptors, is heroic. You’ll probably never know the outcome of your time in the chat room, but you did something noble, in my humble opinion. It has been a considerable privilege of mine to learn so much from you, and not just about owls. Keep on keeping on!
I am really astonished by this turn of events. There are so many that love it when you are on, Stacey - your answers are so informative and accurate.
I will definitely switch sites - I want to watch the owls and learn, not get involved in some high school type of chat about what everyone's favorite movie is.
I have learned much watching the owls, and appreciate your work, knowledge, and comments.
As a lawyer, I have seen all sides of human nature, but to have a site set up to LEARN about something, then prevent an expert in that field be prevented from commenting is truly appalling.....
Sigh. It is not too surprising... disappointing yes, but not unexpected. This is human nature, and reinforces my smirky formula: IQ = 120 / "crowd-size"
Chat-rooms quickly morph into mob-rooms.. not the best place to spout common-sense. So Stacey, I think that occasional peeks into the chatrooms are OK, but you will likely reach more people by focusing your time and energy on this parallel educational effort on your blog, writing books, visiting and promoting wildlife rescue/outreach centers, etc.
I agree that overall, the Royals have helped raise awareness about owls and owlboxes, and that is generally good... as long as people do go out and do more research and avoid erecting death-traps.
I also think that people here are in danger of painting with a broad brush... remember that the "moderators" on chat are not the same as Carlos and Donna, and they may even be at odds with each other at times. I have pretty much ignored the chat(ter) and just watched the owls, so I do not know much about Carlos's goals, or the goals of the moderators, so I cannot speak to them either way, and won't speculate (but of course I have my own thoughts about what they're getting from this.)
But the bottom line is for each of us to try to help educate each other about the world around us... and I think you're doing a good job with that. But MollyChat is not the place to do it... and so, this is their loss. :-)
ttfn,
Drakonis
Stacey, I'm very sorry to hear this has happened, but as Gaffney stated in his/her excellent post above, you have made a difference during your time in Molly chat, especially regarding owl boxes and proper branching set-ups. I hope you can feel good about that. I am sure that there are many who support you and will continue to read your excellent, informative blogs. I know I will!
I have reached the opinion that the Molly site is ultimately about entertainment for the Royals, the chatters and even the schoolchildren. The sharing of only simple, basic owl facts (sometimes misinformation), the suppression of contradicting concerns/opinions, even Mr. Royal's repeated statements about "having fun", "let's watch and see what happens" and "gee that was fun, glad I was a part of it!" suggests that to me. Personally I can't criticize the Royals for this...it is their site and they are entitled to do with it what they want.
I will say, however, that the censorship there is very disturbing. I have a strong suspicion that several of the moderators have little-to-no previous experience with online communities/communication, which leads to abuse of their "power".
Now we can only hope that Molly and her family will come through this without tragedy.
Susan from MI
Yes, I , too hope that the owlets will fledge successfully! The reason I tried to speak up for them (and by proxy, all other owlets in similar situations) is that I love them with all my being and want every single one of them to succeed in fledging, go out in the world, and make their place in it.
That's what drives everything that I do, as fumbling as I am, being just a regular human being, after all, with my own failings and weaknesses.
But I am trying to help these owls. I was even trying to help Carlos have a good outcome! I wasn't trying to criticize him about the fledging/branching situation. I repeatedly said that he was the innocent victim of an unscrupulous owl box seller who had no concern or understanding about how to set it up. So I was trying to show Carlos, and anyone else who has a box, how to set up a SUCCESSFUL branching/fledging system for the owlets who we've come to know and love so much!
So, we move on.
You were right, though, that he has been trying to get me banned since the day he "invited me" onto the chat. There was another reason why he originally put out the call, asking if anyone knew me, so he could contact me and "invite me" onto the owl box, but it had nothing to do w/ my expertise w/ owls.
I found that out when he did contact me, but decided to still make the best of it and try to answer questions anyway, for as long as I could.
I kind of knew my days there would be short, from the time Carlos first contacted me. So, no worries!
There are much bigger fish to fry.
I'm getting ready to go to Colorado, so I'll be pretty swamped w/ my little teaspoon of wakeful time each day for about a week.
I'll get more active in a week or so, once I'm in Colorado.
I spend a part of every year living in Colorado.
Thank you all so much for your encouragement! I have been heavy hearted and tearful over this, as you can imagine.
-Stacey
Stacey
I cannot believe this is true, Carlos and Donna are good people and care about the Owls. BUT, there is a wrong way and a right way to do things. He states many times he is not an owl expert, well shouldn't he / they want to know the correct information from an expert. I certainly do, I am very attached to these babies and I would want the best for them. I do not like all the merchandising also, a lot of people I understand want a souvenir. Helping the Royals with equipment I can see, it is for our viewing after all. I have wondered how much they are getting out of this? A lot I bet....Hopefully other people will see this and do not close their eyes to the safety of these precious babies. I hope to talk to you at your new site.
Best Wishes
Reggie76
Stacey i am so mad to hear they banned you (but not surprised),i also was banned for speaking up for the sake of the owlets.I will no longer be at mr. Carlos site.
Awww cheer up Stacey so many of us admire you! And care very much for you!! Remember this. We all have tried in our own ways...they are in Gods hands now...some huggs ox
I am sad to hear that someone with an education in owls has been disrespected, and that trying to get real facts across to the people in that chat room has been so difficult.
The statement from one of the mods,"This is about the owls...let's keep it that way" made my jaw drop.
Just goes to show that there is no reasoning with someone who is making it so NOT about owls. If it were about the owls, then everyone would be trying to find expert opinions about barn owls. The opinions of those that work with them daily in rehab, the veterinarians, etc.
Somewhere along the line Carlos decided that the little he knew about owls was good enough. I know many people like that, who are quick to make up their minds about something, and find it difficult to be open to another way.
The world is full of people like this, and the world has people who see a problem and chose to do something about it. Stacey is right, a law needs to be passed and then enforced. Many voices that don't go away pointed at the top banana.
Unfortunately, as we all know, it can take years for change. We would all benefit from a few courses in human psychology. It certainly is easier to change behaviors in a dog.
Carlos has said that he isn't doing this for the public again. I will continue to give the owlbox my attention, but I am not expecting to see any more changes made. I will interject concern where needed.
For those that are concerned about the misinformation given to school children. There is misinformation everywhere you turn. Books can be outdated, information on the internet incorrect. I have heard Carlos repeatedly say he was not an expert and that he didn't know. If a child is serious about owls, they will seek out correct information.
I live in Glen Rock, PA, and I am interested in promoting the type housing the Barn Owl Trust is using. That would have to go hand in hand with the discontinuation of rodent poison used by farmers in my area. That is where I can try to make a difference in my community.
I thank someone in the chat room for showing me the link to The Barn Owl Trust. Now I will share that site and information with everyone who wants to listen. I will contact the bird box builders in my area, and try to get them on board. I am even thinking the blue bird boxes I have up could use some changes. It must be an oven in there. Maybe I will yank mine off the fences between clutches and add some ventilation.
I hope there will be success for Molly's owlets. Any box or housing that I erect in the future will be thoroughly thought about. Sure, many birds have survived using the boxes that are out there, many haven't. Why not increase the chances? Their lives are difficult enough.
There is now another Victoria who posted on this blog, so I have added a B to my name.
Thank you Stacey for allowing me a place to share.
Nobody should feel guilty for enjoying the owls. I never said or even implied that. This is how rumors start. Next thing we know, it will be all over the Royal compound that we are saying to feel guilty for enjoying the owls. But it should not ALL be about enjoyment. You should be willing to give back to these magnificent creatures who have so enhanced your life. While life can and should be enjoyable, the sum total of our existence should not be to say that we were a part of it and golly gee wasn't that fun.
I have to say I am sorry but not surprised. The mods (a select few) have taken over the chat and have personal vendettas that they carry out on a whim. I also have been banned along with a few others for exposing the true identity of a regular chatter. Stacey what you tried to do is evident to those who really care about the owls and we are behind you and will join your voice in trying to bring about regulation. We have to remember no product man conceives of is better than what God intended and we frequently do more harm than good when we interfere.
Magicsmom you said it eloquently and I hope people listen and stop hearing personal attacks. We have now had intimate exposure to these beautiful creatures and hopefully it will bring out the humanity in all who have had this experience.
You can also give back by donating directly to any of the wonderful wildlife funds that Stacey mentioned in an earlier blog. By givng directly all goes to the fund and not just $1.00.
I'm sorry that you're being treated this way, Stacey!
I'm not surprised at some of the simple(ton) thought processes of some of the folks in the chat.
As I understand it, Carlos INVITED STACEY but somewhere something went wrong.
I think the mods who are stifling ideas and speech feel that you're a threat to their mod jobs. If people are paying attention to you, then they're not kissing up to them every 5 minutes.
They don't realize or understand that you're a scientist who has STUDIED barn owls. They think that because you wrote a book about your beloved Wesley and spent a chunk of your time with him that that equals: you've only worked with hand raised BOs and NEVER wildlife or out in the field.
I've seen mods say that and then Carlos goes and REPEATS this nonsense. Why he listens to ANY of them is beyond me, as I've NEVER heard any of them say they have or had any experience with wildlife (watching robins from your bedroom window doesn't count). So they have a lot of nerve questioning YOUR creds.
Sitting home all day, wielding these weird, dubious "mod powers" and having people react must be the most attention some of them have had in their whole lives.
The homeschoolers, the people who hate science, the inside jokes and some mods in that chat room have turned the chat into one big commercial to hawk useless stuff and solicit recipes for some corny "ecookbook".
And then to basically shut out someone who can offer real insight into things is just baffling.
I believe the Royals are nature lovers and animal enthusiasts and I appreciate that they're sharing these BOs with the world. I'm glad that they inspired others to share their channels and I'm moving on other (free) Ustream bird/animal channels where I'm not solicited every hour on the hour and can just enjoy watching.
One day, after some of these chatters have continued to observe wildlife for a few years and learned a little more you can bet they will kick themselves for shunning you.
Many cams that become popular on Ustream turn into this sort of circus. Moderators get power happy, the owner suddenly feels like a celebrity, cliques form. Kinda like the old days of IRC. But now you have products pop up (usually because people do demand them) then you have to deal with advertising that turns into something else. (If I could get one dollar for every viewer.. wow!) It's not the first time and it won't be the last.
I respect what the Royals have done, sharing this experience with the world but I don't like that views/opinions/questions/advice/facts are being suppressed in the chat room to maintain the "perfection" of the story. I understand wanting to keep the room G rated. To me, that doesn't mean discussions about the sad side of nature shouldn't be discussed. It happens quite often and is an integral part of learning about the species you are watching! Like Yin and Yang.
I've seen all sorts of horrific and sad things happen in wild nests. Like a few years ago, the barn owl mother on webcam in CA that ate the head of a gopher and the skull freakishly lodged in her throat, killing her, leaving her 7 babies orphaned. There are many baby barn owls that are attacked in their own nests. Many of these are documented, even some on Youtube - one of the most memorable - baby Hugo. Parents are killed, babies die, predators creep in, eggs are stolen. People need to understand the life of barn owls isn't always as smooth as it has been for Molly and her family - so far. I really hope it continues, it's nice to see.
So with all these natural things working against owls and looming over them to begin with, It's not unreasonable for ANYONE to want to discuss these things and also be concerned about fledging areas outside of a box placed by humans. These humans need to be responsible and educated about what they're doing for the sake of these federally protected owls.
I am so sorry you have been banned. Personally I will not be returning either.
I was just in Chat and mentioned to Carlos that I answer questions because Moderators are too busy chatting amongst themselves. Carlos replied,
"1:00 carlosroyal: No one has to answer any quesion unless they want to"
Ummmmmm, isn't there a personal responsibility to educate folks who are wanting and trying to learn?
My heart is heavy. Do I stay to answer the ignored? Or do I toss in the towel and leave because the site owner obviously wants a sugarcoated entertainment site? It's sad. I'm sad.
When I heard Stacey had been kicked off I sent a moderator the following private message...
"What is this I hear about Stacey being kicked off? This is going to be very embarrassing to Carlos and Donna. Donna reads her blog. It is
wrong to cause a rift."
I wanted to try to guilt trip the moderator like they did something
that would hurt Carlos and Donna but apparently they were in on it.
because this is the text of what was said next by the moderator ....
"It was Carlos and Donna's decision. And not something that was decided lightly. It was done for a reason. And will not be reversed"
12:30 belindaesq: OH THEY WERE INVOLVED????????OMG. I WAS BEING
PROTECTIVE OF THEM AND THEY DID IT??????
silence. I got off. Oy vey. What a mess.
People are not what they seem. There is much more to this story than those involved will discuss. Stacey is too polite to put any more energy into this. Go to Colorado and make a difference to the animal world. We love you owl girl!
Everybody os worried about Carlos Royal and how much money he is making from this..Is Stacey donating 100% of her profits from her book? She sold a LOT more copies from being on the Owl Box site ..
It was Carlos's and Donna's decision to ban Stacey. Let no one think otherwise. He is calling the shots and the Mods are following his orders. I predict a mass mutiny in the next few weeks = one mod told me "this isn't what I signed up for."
I was on the M&M site from the first or second egg. At that time there were not many people there and people were thirsting for information. I am no professional, but I researched before I answered questions and understand the scientific model. Very early on, I expressed concern about the design of the box to the owner and suggested that to reduce the risk of fall, he place a small piece of wood to heighten the doorway. He was very interested in learning things and did make a positive comment about my suggestion. The expert builder and some of the mods said there was no danger of falling. One person even suggested that there was a gene for falling and the owls that fell could not reproduce thus selecting them out of the gene pool. I asked for the reference for this but received no response. I suggested that because people who chat there take everything that is said as the ultimate truth, that they should be able to produce references for comments like that. I am actually surprised that I am not banned. I have been a realist about the things that could happen in the nest and that did not go over well. I have spent a lot of time on the BOT site as well as other science-based sites and have a great difficulty with the rose-colored glasses in general use there. I agree with most of the comments written here. The box had the great potential of opening the world of BNOWs to the general public, but then something went terribly wrong. The commercialism bothered me--the constant posts about "buy this or that," donating to a "foundation" that would be set up, the clique mentality and the abuse of power by the mods. I was also thrilled to see Stacey in there because I knew she knew a thing or two. I would have loved to have time to pick her mind.
I appreciate that the cam was set up and that I had a color view into the world of the BNOW. I thank the owner for this opportunity, but things have gone amuck and I rarely go there anymore except for the view. I prefer to spend time on came that come from a science-based source, and I donate to one of these cams.
And to Stacey--as they say, the juice ain't worth the squeeze. You have many other important things to do and say. Don't let the mob mentality get you down.
I have to say that I am not surprised ONE bit! It's funny how they think that they are all owl experts but yet a real owl expert come in and they shun them out. I'm so disappointed in this chatroom to say the least! I have been watching since egg 2 was laid and have gotten the cold shoulder from Carlos since the beginning. This is HIS box and that's how he wants to keep it. Stacey, I bought your book and look forward to reading the rest of it! So far, it's great. I know where to find you know and if I have a question, this is where I will be! Take care!
So, now I'm pretty confused. I posted yesterday,& my post has been deleted. I was not disrespectful in any way, shape, or form but I did say that in MY opinion I felt Stacey, that you were banned for the WAY you said what you did three nights ago, not for the content. I ALSO sad that I was sorry things had gone that way because I know people in that room respected & appreciated your expertise.
So, it seems completely hypocritical to me that a post expressing an opinion about your being banned would be deleted because I was not 100% in agreement with your statement that you were banned for speaking your mind.
Also kind of ironic because I was really trying last night in the room to spread some awareness of what the owlets need to be able to fledge (which I learned from you.)
I plan to keep trying to do that because in the end, it is the owls that matter, not this petty interpersonal stuff.
Stacey - I notice that Carlos did build a "T-bar" for the owlets to fly to, I guess to help them "branch." So thanks to you that he even provided that! I do worry that the owlets will not have enough places to branch and be able to get back into the box. The Audubon California Star Ranch barn owl cam documented a "natural" nest, built in an eucalyptus tree - even this nest, two of the owlets perished - though 5 out of 7 fledged, you can still hear one or two of them rasping close to the nest site. It now appears Mom and Dad are gearing up (they have been mating for the past couple days) for another clutch! I just believe that a "manmade" owl nesting site should imitate a tree as closely as possible, lots of room, easy access, lots of "branches." You were absolutely right! I do believe that there is plenty of food for the Molly/McGee owl family - I just wish the owl box had a larger entrance and a larger platform outside the entrance and more branches for the owlets to branch to
I'm sure this post won't be here for long, but I find it very . . . interesting that a blog expressing anger over censoring comments is full of censored comments.
I do a lot of environmental education. You can beat people over the head with what they should do, and get them angry and refusing to do the right thing, OR you can go at it with a much gentler approach. Maybe that makes too much sense, though. I am curious about that question that asks if Stacey is donating all of her profits. Just curious. . .
Carlos must be doing something right. Molly & McGee have returned to the owl box with a second clutch. Nests for owls, either man-made OR natural, don't always have a branch nearby, yet the young ones manage to return safely. The Royals have never claimed to be scientists or experts on the subject of owls so lighten up folks. We all know you're all still lurking in the chat, waiting for the owlets to hatch!
Stacey, my mom Deborah Hicks (Wesley's nanny)would like to contact you. Do you still read this blog?
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